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UPDATED Haters vs. Forced Accountability: The Alexis Martin Neely Case Study “The Truth-Telling Lawyer”?

UPDATED Haters vs. Forced Accountability: The Alexis Martin Neely Case Study “The Truth-Telling Lawyer”?

UPDATED: July 24, 2015 Alexis Neely aka Ali Shanti has a new gig she’s promoting on Twitter:  Law Business Mentor

Family Wealth Planning Institute, LLC
Lift Foundation Systems, LLC
Its (sic) All Happening, LLC
Eyes Wide Open LLC
New Law Business Model aka Law Business Mentors
Personal Family Lawyer aka America’s Personal Family Lawyer
The Alexis M. Neely 2005 Irrevocable Trust
The AMN 2010 Irrevocable Trust

Alexis Neely Ali Shanti Law Business Mentors Sued By Client Filed for Bankruptcy- Killing My Career

#Eyes Wide Open

#Whole Truth Show

Money Map to Freedom™

May 17, 2014

#moneymap

UPDATED:  June 8, 2014

#ForcedAccountability AlexisMartinNeely

#ForcedAccountability AlexisNeely

#ForcedAccountability AliShanti

#ForcedAccountability EyesWideOpen

CA DOJ Alexis Martin Neely 2 11 2015 final

CA DOJ checking out Alexis Martin Neely February 11, 2015

Ali Shanti (Alexis Martin Neely) Facebook Post 2-7-2015

Ali Shanti Alexis Neely calling out someone else for lying in marketing. 2 7 2015

In Business one has to have credibility in order to call out another’s credibility

The irony is rich in this post.  As you will read below Ali Shanti (aka Alexis Martin Neely) uses the word “truth” in her marketing and there’s a constant underlying theme of the manipulations of facts, creating parasitic business plans, refusal to take accountability and placing blame (“But, I don’t believe I ever lied as blatantly as what I just saw”which is not only inconsistent & contradictory language to action to calling out “someone you know is blatantly lying in their marketing” it’s the proverbial pot calling the kettle black.

Ali Shanti Nathalie Shiell Response to post 2 7 2015

Unethical calling themselves victims to get out of responsibility

Response to Nathalie Shiell's defense of Alexis Martin Neely & Associates

“Truth-Telling” by Press-Release: Alexis Neely

The comment in question below from a previous thread:

Ali-Shanti-Alexis-Neely-Responds-to-Family-Trust-Case-1-14-2015

Back to today’s post

Ali Shanti's Reponse to conflicting information 2 7 2015

Well, if honest Ali said she had one associate & 3 of counsel attorneys while citing a

former employee, Nathalie Shiell to verify the facts-well then it must be true, right?

Fact based evidence is not having a paid employee become your mouthpiece.

Ali Shanti questions fact based evidence over time regarding her reported unethical and illegal behavior 2 7 2015

Wow. Just. Wow.

Oh Ali-exposing the truth (she’d likely rather remain hidden) of a pathological history of unethical and or illegal behavior as a means of providing fact based evidence to consumers should get her mad.

But it is factual and she’s an attorney, right?

Well that again is inconsistent & contradictory language to action because if lies were published (which they weren’t) wouldn’t a good attorney sue to have the false information removed?   At least she’s smart enough to know she’d get tossed out of court faster than a criminal could change their name or the name of their business.

But thank you for again demonstrating the inability to take accountability while deflecting blame.

What possibly would Ali like me to say about an un-named man and un-named set of circumstances from someone who is clearly ethically challenged?

No credibility means no trust and should force each person to demand actual physical proof of what’s stated as fact.

My response to Ali Shanti's 2 7 2015 3

More facts (7) that the “truth-telling” Ali Shanti (Alexis Martin Neely) may have massaged?

Nathalie Shiell deflecting to defend Ali Shanti 2 7 2015

Response updated 2 7 2015

The victimizer (or accomplice) under The Socioapthic Business Model™

will often try and deflect their negative truthful actions (which are causing harm to their image/profits)

as a means of manipulation to allow continue unethical and or illegal activity

again

without taking accountability for their own actions.

Accomplices insult and demean

Insult & demean those exposing the truth is a tactic from The Sociopathic Business Model™

Nathalie Shiell may also want to re-read that again because filing something incorrecting is much different than

not discussing the conflict of interest.

Plantiff’s Attorney: Alexis Martin Neely (Martin Neely & Associates) the lawsuit describes her actions as willful and despicable lying

Martin Neely never discussed the conflict of interest but instead represented Rebecca and family in the following areas, instructing Rebecca on ways to protect her son’s(correction brother’s) interests in the Trust, and tax information, according to the cases (more here)

Again, there aren’t “my” facts, “Ali’s/Alexis'” facts and “Nathalie’s” facts there is just THE facts which always escapes people who object to The Sociopathic Business Model™ and there’s usually a name for those people: criminals

Something people looking to eliminate fraud from their lives might want to think about before engaging in business:

The people who commit business fraud don’t like The Sociopathic Business Model™ because the goal is to protect you and your money, your health, and your family by not allow you to become a victim of fraud.   

Fact based evidence over time provided me with enough information to know Ali Shanti (aka Alexis Martin Neely) lacks the credibility to ever question another’s ability to tell the truth.  It doesn’t mean the person she’s passive aggressively chastising in her post is honorable in any way (in fact water rises to its own level)* it again likely proves that all accomplices eventually become victims under The Sociopathic Business Model™.  Meaning that those who collude unethically and or illegally together (accomplices) eventually one will turn on the other creating a “victim.” Yes, it’s often difficult to feel sorry for a “victim” who is one of their own doing-but even more so when the victim doesn’t learn and keeps trying to find others to victimize.

Ali Shanti Alexis Martin Neely Ill-gotten gains 2 7 2015

Alexis Martin Neely’s W-2 showing she made over $1 million in 2006

And while that certainly looks impressive
Ill-gotten gains 2 7 2015

Ill-Gotten Gains

I’d say Alexis Martin Neely (Ali Shanti) being sued by a client that alleged Illegal Malpractice, Breach of Fiduciary Duty and Negligent Infliction of Emotional Distress may fall into the category of ill-gotten gains, or benefits obtained in an evil manner or dishonest means where forced accountability was the remedy which may have resulted in Neely filing for bankruptcy.  Kinda takes the wind out of that million Alexis Martin Neely (Ali Shanti) earned in 2006 now, doesn’t it?

 

Alexis-Martin-Neely-also-known-as-Ali-Shanti-or-Martin-Neely-Associates-final

Victimizers do not get to cry victim (or “Haters” when the facts (deeply hidden)) are exposed forcing someone to take accountability for their unethical or illegal behavior.  This next Case Study involves an attorney, actually “a truth telling lawyer,” (?) Alexis Martin Neely (aka Ali Shanti, aka Alexis Martin, aka Martin Neely & Associates).  The purpose and function is to expose the facts to allow people to determine if they would want to do business with the people in the Case Studies or not.  Again, up to each individual how to best apply the facts to make conscious decisions for their own lives.

Alexis Martin Neely Alexis Neely Website

And there’s the first trigger “paradigm.” Anytime I (personally) hear or read anyone using that word they have lost instant creditability with me (again fact based evidence over time has proven to me this person is either a grifter or insecure and using a buzz word).

Others may still love an embrace the word but they either took a dinosaur to work or trying to parasitically attach themselves to a once acceptable buzz word.  (Also see growth hacking).  And anytime anyone says “I’m not a micro manager or I’m a truth telling lawyer,” the skeptic in me and well that and fact based evidence over time has proven the opposite is usually true. Alexis Neely LinkedIn What brought this to my attention was as usual inconsistent and contradictory language and actions which are signs or triggers that someone could be employing characteristics of The Sociopathic Business Model™.  Why brag you graduated first in your class at Georgetown and not actually practice law?

While Neely is an attorney, she neglected to mention on the website blurb above or her LinkedIn snapshot that she’s was not a practicing attorney from 2011 until recent events Forced Accountability.   The omissions or manipulation of facts still equates to lies and lies are the opposite of “truth-telling.” (Not sure they taught that at Georgetown)Alexis Neely LinkedIn 2 Alexis Neely LinkedIn 3

Wow fourth year in practice and she was bringing in 1 million revenue only working in her office a few days a week?  And yet she filed for bankruptcy and let her eligibility to practice law lapse?  Again, that’s inconsistent and contradictory language and actions and for me a  BIG RED FLAG, and warrants a deeper look.  

And this is a personal thing and can be viewed as “hate” but the made up titles are another RED FLAG for me.  The need to create new “titles” like Chief Visionary Officer-newsflash a good CEO should also have vision-this isn’t clever, charming or even relevant (for me it solidifies the desire to try and hide something or take attention away from something and makes me want to dig deeper still).

Remember multiple name changes, location changes, website domains changes, company name changes are all tricks used to distance SEO from often illegal or unethical behavior and something to note when making decisions.  And if companies like Johnson & Johnson and their CEO are doing it with apparent ease, it’s much easier to do with smaller company.  Just points to keep in mind as you make decisions.

From The State Bar of California:

Alexis Martin Neely State Bar of California inactive until 5 6 2014

A reasonable person reading Alexis Martin Neely’s LinkedIn page from 2011 on would/could reasonably assume she was a current practicing attorney.  If Alexis Martin Neely’s tagline is “the truth-telling lawyer,” (?) wouldn’t it stand to reason somewhere on her website blub or LinkedIn page she’d mention she WAS NOT CURRENTLY PRACTICING SINCE 2011 and only changed that status with the Bar in California just a week ago? And doesn’t she live in Colorado?  Is she planning on taking the Bar in Colorado?  Is she planning on moving back to California?  These aren’t “hater” questions they are legitimate questions!

Forced Accountability is what caused “the truth-telling lawyer” (?) to finally update her eligibility with the Bar of California in her own words.  If you care to read Alexis Martin Neely’s full post where she justifies unethical behavior and cries victim just click on the first two words of this paragraph: Forced Accountability.  And if you think I’m being a little harsh, on The Chief Visionary Officer at Law Business Mentors, keep reading.

Alexis Neely Dealing with Forced Accountability

Alexis Neely Forced Accountability

Let’s do a little PR Spin unspun:  “I chose”  (inconsistent and contradictory) not to take on private clients or practice law (is that the truth-telling lawyer telling the truth Or here).  What has been the source of income?

I know nothing of the other things she’s mentioned (however, I do think she is an attractive woman-which has likely helped her manipulate) but it might be time to grab a mirror and reflect that if what she’s viewing as “hate” is really just trying to get her to take accountability and live life honestly-those people aren’t the problem.

Again the question is asked why would someone go through the trouble of attending Georgetown Law, graduating first in her class, omit or manipulate certain facts for financial advantage, but not actually practice law legally? And was she really not practicing law as she claims?   And why is it when people are asked to be accountable they refer to those as seeking the truth as “haters?”

There’s one more piece to this Case Study before we can run it through The Sociopathic Business Model™ that may help to answer some of the question. So grab a snack and maybe some tissues this is a long Case Study:  Alexis Martin Neely was sued under Martin Neely & Associates (even though she was the only attorney at the self-created firm.) Is that more inconsistent and contradictory language and actions?  Is that a manipulation of the facts for financial benefit?  All information is taken from the public record lawsuit 2/1/2012 and filed in good faith.  These are allegations but again filed in good faith it stands to reason there was fact based evidence to support the claims in order for an attorney to file a suit.

Alexis Martin Neely Lawsuit Case No BC 462666

Alexis Martin Neely Lawsuit CA image final

Alexis Martin Neely Lawsuit CA image 1According to the suit Neely assured Rebecca she could assist her with all matters including matter related to the trust her personally and those related to Rebecca’s developmentally disabled son (correction brother).  Rebecca left a copy of the family trust that needed amended along with $950 as the initial review.

Alexis Martin Neely Lawsuit CA image 2 final

A woman in emotional crisis believed what her attorney had told her; but, at no time prior to Rebecca’s mother’s death did  Martin Neely tell Rebecca they/actually she wouldn’t be representing Rebecca in helping her developmentally disabled son (correction brother) or his interests.  

Martin Neely never discussed the conflict of interest but instead represented Rebecca and family in the following areas, instructing Rebecca on ways to protect her son’s (correction brother’s) interests in the Trust, and tax information, according to the cases as well as:

Alexis Martin Neely Lawsuit CA image 3 final

And I think we’ve seen things like this from the playbook before.

Alexis Martin Neely Lawsuit Case No BC 462666 image 4

Alexis Martin Neely Lawsuit CA image 7 final

Alexis Martin Neely Lawsuit CA image 4 final

x

Alexis Martin Neely Lawsuit CA image 5

Alexis Martin Neely Lawsuit CA image 6 final

If only half of what was stated in the lawsuit against Alexis Martin Neely & Associates rings true it’s not only dishonest it is reprehensible.   Again, that’s speculative as we do not know the actual outcome of the case.   The lawsuit settled in mid-2012 Alexis Martin Neely filed for bankruptcy soon after and could be viewed as a way to deflect accountability. UPDATED: From Ali Shanti/Alexis Martin Neely’s Facebook page.  

Ali Shanti Alexis Neely Alexis Martin Neely bankruptcy

When someone asks her if it’s true that:


Alexis Neely questioned on 800,000 of consumer debt

Alexis Neely Rebloggingdonk

Alexis Neely asked to defend her actions takes the weekend off

 

When asked to verify facts she politely states she’ll answer questions on Monday.

 But we have enough to run Alexis Martin Neely the truth-telling lawyer (?) through the characteristics The Sociopathic Business Model™:

Checklist-of-Characteristic-of-The-Sociopathic-Business-Model (1)

Alexis Martin Neely (Martin Neely & Associates) was glib when justifying unethical behavior

Alexis Martin Neely (Martin Neely & Associates) manipulates and does not recognize the rights of others that was the tone in the case file against her and also recognized with omission of certain information from her LinkedIn profile

Alexis Martin Neely (Martin Neely & Associates) demonstrated that Rebecca was an accomplice who ended up a victim

Alexis Martin Neely (Martin Neely & Associates) the lawsuit describes it as willful and despicable lying and again for me personally a lie of omission is still a lie

My “eyes are wide open” there are no disclaimers:  “You don’t want to incorporate in Delaware.” “They have securities laws that don’t apply to you.” “You’re gonna be exempt from all of that.” From December 2012 (Isn’t that legal advice?) Is that practicing law while not eligible?

So let’s assume someone found her on her webpage where she refers to herself as the truth-telling lawyer, yet she makes no disclaimers on video about not being eligible during this time, nor does she mention she’s a non-practicing attorney.  My eyes are wide open to people who use selective truths or omissions of facts that they’re being dishonest and unethical and someone I would not do business with on those points alone.

Above she said she took no legal clients from 2011 on let’s hope that’s right because: “unauthorized practice of law California” is a crime.  To be clear, holding oneself out to be a lawyer / doling out legal advice when ineligible to practice violates this CA rule and that same behavior  if found is associated with penalties including a fine of up to $1000 and /or up to one year in jail for the first offense. Subsequent convictions carry a mandatory minimum of 90 days in jail.  But in the video she mentions the ‘virtual office,‘ so maybe laws and ethics don’t apply there?  Why else would someone take the time to do these videos if not trying to attract clients?  Why else would someone say, “I can’t get into all the details of it now,” but to lead people to seek out her services or to evade the facts?  Lack of transparency is RED FLAG!

Alexis Martin Neely (Martin Neely & Associates) has shown lack of accountability responsibility, lack of shame, remorse or guilt as she filed for bankruptcy.  The lawsuit settled mid-2012 just a few months later she file for bankruptcy.  The timing is very interesting to say the least.  I also would not personally support any publisher that supported her expected book You are not your Credit Score or any book written by Alexis Martin Neely/Martin Neely & Associates/Ali Shanti.

Alexis Martin Neely (Martin Neely & Associates) created hopelessness in Rebecca as outlined in the lawsuit

Alexis Martin Neely (Martin Neely & Associates) motivated through fear per the lawsuit or maybe people don’t like when people seek the truth and will do anything from the facts becoming exposed

Alexis Martin Neely (Martin Neely & Associates) demeaned and insulted those who challenged her accountability or challenged her to the facts  Those that are seeking the truth don’t need to make it a tagline necessarily but they won’t accept being called haters-seeking the real truth is the most loving thing one can do for another.

Alexis Martin Neely (Martin Neely & Associates) engaged in unethical behavior which brought about a lawsuit and also was less than forthcoming regarding her status as a practicing lawyer. 

Alexis Martin Neely (Martin Neely & Associates) known names:  Alexis Neely and Alexis Martin Neel, Ali Shanti and Martin Neely & Associates and has numerous websites.

My favorite line:  Fact based evidence over time is the best indicator of the future and this is enough information for me to determine that I would not work with or recommend Alexis Martin Neely, Alexis Neely, Ali Shanti or Martin Neely & Associates to any consulting client, friend or family member.   Each person reading this can run the facts through the model and determine what’s best for them.  

And one last example of inconsistent and contradictory language that makes me question why someone would list on the main page of their website  proudly they do media and list that she’s a regular legal commentator on: CNBC, FOX, and CNN

Alexis Martin Neely TV appearances inconsistent and contradictory language 1

Only on another page say that (she) “has decided not to do anymore television,” we’ve seen similar language in PR Spin Unpsun. Is this misleading to readers or potential clients?  And why post videos dispensing legal advice available on YouTube but turn down national spots on television?  My awareness and wide open eyes are telling me that anyone who is marketing and guiding lawyers to a new business model would reasonably want national exposure.

Alexis Martin Neely TV appearances inconsistent and contradictory language

There are too many amazing lawyers out there and the facts as I see them omit her from that list.  But she does make the new list of Banned of Life since I know where I stand; and, it matters very little that Alexis Martin Neely just updated her eligibility to practice law in a state that she doesn’t live.  

Related:

“Truth-Telling” by Press-Release: Alexis Neely Funding Boulder Protests: Our Hero! | KILLING MY CAREER

Forced Accountability: Parasitically Preying on Parents is Not A Business Model: Ali Shanti Case Study | KILLING MY CAREER

Moneymap is the New Truth-Telling Lawyer?: Alexis Neely Update | KILLING MY CAREER

And in closing let’s remember my LinkedIn paged used to get shut down when I wrote factual stories people didn’t like or they’d resort to childish desperate acts of spamming.  That doesn’t happen anymore because other people who like the truth also read the page.

And there’s this great story from 2012  AVVOcalypse Now.  AVVO is a rating system for attorneys.

And if you liked this story you may also enjoy this Case Study

In full disclosure and transparency I met with attorney, Steven Laureant of Jackson White in March of 2013 who advised me to use  ™ after all of my proprietary intellectual property even though I do not currently have the finances to file all the necessary paperwork.  To be clear I am not trying to be fraudulent or cheap, I’m just trying to survive right now.  As soon as finances are available Steve will file all the necessary paperwork on my behalf.

31 Comments
  • Ash girl
    Reply

    Thank you for your hard work and courage deconstructing the online marketing outfit that is Alexis Neely and her sidekicks. Her blog post “How to handle Haters” reads as 100% hubris, and that was even before I came across your website. I personally would never trust her outfit for any kind of help if I wanted to base my business on an ethical model. Unfortunately, somebody close to me has been absorbed into that vortex, and I foresee disastrous consequences on many levels.

    May 29, 2014 at 12:18 pm
  • Anonymous
    Reply

    Thank your for your compassionate response. Every time I see the word “haters” used in relation to self by an individual, my BS/hubris detector starts going off. It points to the inability of this individual to have insight into his/her own actions and an aversion to self-examination.

    June 2, 2014 at 8:01 am
  • Pastor Jim
    Reply

    “Alexis”, “Ali”, “Martin”. Jeez, I wonder if there’s anybody else in there. I believe the current DSM mentions you only need a minimum of two “distinct personality states” to qualify for your very own free-of-charge diagnosis. Congratulations, Ale..er..Al…er, Mart..well whoever’s in charge today.

    Good reporting!

    June 9, 2014 at 6:41 am
  • Ash girl
    Reply

    An addendum to my previous post on Ali Shanti aka Alexis Neely:
    A close relative, who got sucked into her Eyes Wide Open coaching program (which is nothing more than a virtual gathering place for narcissists at an exorbitant monthly price) has been given such bad marketing advice, that it is clear to everyone that his business venture is about to be a big bust. When asked to recommend a trademark service, she recommended Trademarkia, equally as sleazy and useless an outfit, as became clear only after a couple of hours of digging around for information. When she was confronted with this information, there was no response forthcoming. She knows nothing, and contributes nothing of value to this relative in question, who could possibly enjoy a modest success with his idea, if Eyes Wide Open actually served his business interests instead of feeding his narcissism.

    I myself got into a very modestly priced online marketing seminar, with a proven track record and reputation, and highly recommended by people I actually know in person, and so far the marketing/business development information I got is so contrary to what my relative has been getting from Eyes Wide Open, that I can see exactly why this relative’s business is doomed. A friend, who is a successful marketing consultant and who worked with a number of businesses in this arena,
    agrees with me.

    June 12, 2014 at 5:19 pm
    • Hi! What is the name of the online seminar that you’re referring to? Just curious since my boyfriend and I are starting our new business.
      Thank you for the feedback too!

      January 23, 2016 at 10:11 am
  • Jack A.
    Reply

    I am about to buy her 7 part course on estate planning. Now I am confused.

    August 2, 2014 at 7:22 pm
  • Very good info. Lucky me I came across your website by chance (stumbleupon).

    I have saved as a favorite for later!

    August 4, 2014 at 7:44 pm
  • Cynthia
    Reply

    Jack did you buy the program? I’ve been on the fence as well. I don’t want to spend 2500 on garbage.

    August 28, 2014 at 10:44 am
  • Cynthia
    Reply

    The missing information it think that would push me off the fence could be a review from someone that dealt with her company in the past. At the present there are only glowing testimonials that I can find online which I know is self promoting but who is to say if the content of her materials is truly terrible? Unfortunately some of the most successful lawyers in my area are some of the most rotten and despicable people I’ve met. :/

    September 1, 2014 at 1:12 pm
  • Pastor Jim
    Reply

    You know, the more I try to read through the new-agey psychobabble this woman churns out, the more I think she believes her own bullshit. A con-artist who has conned herself. A most frightening thing. I almost hate to bring up that she has a couple of adolescent children who are having to watch all this from their mother. In fact, if I remember correctly she even encouraged her daughter to quit school so she (Alexis/Ali) could make an online marketeer out of her. This is all just so….sad.

    February 11, 2015 at 6:37 am
  • George
    Reply

    Any reviews of Howtomanageasmalllawfirm.com? Rjon recommended Alexis.

    May 3, 2015 at 4:16 pm
  • Carol K.
    Reply

    Thank God I found your site before I threw down $3k. Something about the whole “make $10k” a month sounded bogus but I thought maybe she knew something I didn’t. She should be disbarred.

    July 17, 2015 at 1:48 pm
  • August 21, 2015 at 2:19 am
  • she is currently promoting this big time on facebook ads

    August 21, 2015 at 2:40 am
  • I have bee receiving a bunch of her unsolicited spam (which by the way, is not in compliance with the CAN SPAM Act…pretty bad for a marketing firm). I am glad you posted this info, so we can shine the light on what is really going on.

    November 8, 2015 at 7:58 am
  • This woman is promoting her Law Business Mentors program on LinkedIn now.

    November 20, 2015 at 6:07 pm
  • Lynn
    Reply

    Still no feedback from anyone who has actually purchased or even obtained access to review her materials? Seems like two marketers in competition with each other, leaving the rest of us wondering who to believe out of the spin doctors.. Frustrating.

    January 5, 2017 at 6:22 am
  • Gloria A
    Reply

    This is the most sociopathic website I’ve ever seen, and I have actually studied the topic.

    April 10, 2017 at 3:51 pm
  • I wish I had seen this before I bought this program. I think the material is good (not cheap at over $4000)
    but I don’t like the whole if you don’t pay the monthly fees you have no access to most of the things that made the program appealing in the first place. I got a discount from the $1497 to $1197 by agreeing to pay it for a year, however, learning the materials to even begin to implement them is time consuming (especially if you are already in practice and have to work every day to make a living). Instead of letting you get set up and then implementing the monthly fees they kick right in (I think they should start in 4 months or so to get you set up first). I paid them for a few months and was no where near ready to read the 100+ a day emails to figure out what I was doing right or wrong. I then asked to be released from the year long monthly dues (and they agreed) but I still owe for a couple of months I could not pay and now they are threatening collections. Then I read all of these posts tonight and got sick. I will make use of the materials I have to the best of my ability, but the thing I really wanted to do “Kids Protection Plan” is only available to dues paying members I found out the other day. The same goes for any help promoting this, newsletters etc. Apparently it is working for her so why give any one a break. There will always be those who will pay. I just did not have the resources to do that which is why I got so excited about the BS. ” have a practice you love, work less hours and make real money…” As they say “Live and Learn”

    September 12, 2017 at 9:22 pm

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